Talk:Armenia–Georgia relations

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NPOV?

I was hoping to find a discussion on this talkpage about the NPOV tag. So whats the dispute? --VartanM 04:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea, but if anything, this article certainly needs work. -- Aivazovsky (talk) 20:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This concerns POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. From WP tag policy: Drive-by tagging is strongly discouraged. The editor who adds the tag must address the issues on the talk page, pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies, namely Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag. Tags should be added as a last resort. Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag. BTW - If Aivazovsky or anyone wishes to properly tag it ("needs work"), fine.....Jjdon (talk) 22:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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"romantic nationalistic mythology" of Kober

This is not a "romantic nationalistic mythology", but facts of the History:

Early Middle Ages

1.Yellow: A. Central Armenian Kingdom of Bagratuni, B. Kingdom of Armenian Bagratuni in Iberia and Tayk, C. Kingdom of Artsruni in Vaspurakan, Southern Armenia, 2.Red: Subordinate Emirates in D. Dvin, E. Nakhichevan, F. Tiflis, 3.other colours: subordinate principalities of G. Syunik, H. Artsakh, I. Parisos, J. Taron, K. Kartli, L. Kakheti, M. Caucasian Albania Albania, N. Kabala, O. Kaysite Emirate, P. Gandzak, etc.

With their status of "King of Kings" (Shahanshah)^[1], Armenian kings authority also carried over to the neighboring states of Georgia, Caucasian Albania and several of the Arab emirates^[2].

Why this ancient map and facts of the History such a bothersome and troubling for some people?Culminatio (talk) 07:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Tim Greenwood, Emergence of the Bagratuni Kingdoms, p. 52, in Armenian Kars and Ani, Richard Hovannisian, ed.
^ (in Armenian) Arakelyan, Babken N. «Աշոտ Ա» (Ashot I). Soviet Armenian Encyclopedia. vol. i. Yerevan: Armenian SSR: Armenian Academy of Sciences, 1974, pp. 486-487.

Stalin's attempt to annex Armenia into Georgia and used source

" In 1936, Lavrenty Beria and Stalin worked to deport Armenians to Siberia in an attempt to bring Armenia's population under 700,000 in order to justify an annexation into Georgia." - firstly, in original source, the author uses the word "Perhaps" when talking about Stalin's intention of reducing population of Armenian SSR down to 700,000 and later annexing it to Georgia. So the way it was written in the current article is already misleading the reader. Secondly, the source itself (Armenia: Past and Present) is in not a scholarly book. It's published by the Armenian Apostolic Church of America, translated from an original publication in Switzerland. Moreover, there is neither mentioning of the exact day when the purges took places, nor there're the references to the solid evidence or documents of Stalin's intentions about annexing Armenia into Georgia (I doubt the author could've have access to KGB archives in early 80s).

I suggested either to provide a credible source to back up that statement, or to remove the misleading part completely. DaRev (talk) 07:34, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added extra sources to confirm that Armenian's were indeed deported to other regions within the Soviet Union. This isn't a mere speculation or hypothesis- it did occur. Since the source in question hasn't been deemed outright non-WP:RS, I've kept it and kept the "unreliable tag" as finding better or other additional sources is never a bad thing. Please keep in mind that these tags do not have an expiry date! In addition, rather than blanket deletion, a clarify tag could also be added. Archives908 (talk) 20:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You act like Georgians weren't being deported, if anything Georgians had it worse by completely giving it's lands away to Armenia Azerbaijan Turkey and russia. And exhaling 100 000 Georgians in gulag, creating breakaway regions and supporing insurgenc 2A02:8440:713B:6B96:DFC:8D7E:23D3:7BB3 (talk) 15:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not disputing the part that you've added, but if you insist on leaving the speculations from unreliable source, you should at least change the sentence, so it wouldn't mislead the reader. Otherwise, it would be better to remove that part at all.

Besides, I've noticed pattern of cherry picking of more "preferrable" information by you before. Like when you added the information about consideration of Armenians and Georgians as "advanced" people, but removing the part from the same book that "both of them were sometimes considered as "eastern" and "backward" when the topic was "feudal" customs". Such details are important to show the attitude of Soviet government to those respective nations, but it seems that you left the part which you liked.

That cherry picking applies to the new part you've added about deportation in 1949.

Among those deported in 1949, were a lot of Diaspora Armenians that repatriated after WWII, as about 100 000 of Armenians arrived on Soviet ships to USSR and then to Yerevan:

RETURNING TO THE SYMBOLIC MOTHERLAND by Tigran Zakaryan

Not to mention that Soviet government repatriated 44 000 of Armenians (mostly from Europe) to Armenian SSR even between 1921–1937:

Армянский Музей Москвы и Культуры Наций
The Armenians : past and present in the making of national identity. Edmund Herzig, Marina Kurkchiyan.

I don't think it's necessary to further explain the significance of adding such context and coherance to the section for the readers. --DaRev (talk) 10:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Tim Greenwood, Emergence of the Bagratuni Kingdoms, p. 52, in Armenian Kars and Ani, Richard Hovannisian, ed.

[2] (in Armenian) Arakelyan, Babken N. «Աշոտ Ա» (Ashot I). Soviet Armenian Encyclopedia. vol. i. Yerevan: Armenian SSR: Armenian Academy of Sciences, 1974, pp. 486-487.

[1]

[2]